Does UWS Ohab Zedek shul have a gay problem?
In this regular "jew" search of a random Craig's List postings, we find what appears to be a coupe-in-planning over at the offices of the Rabbi of OZ.
Are the eyes of the guys at OZ wandering to the east and west pews instead of the north balcony?
This post was posted on CL at 12:30am.... Mr Pers-1637.... was obviously trolling for some late night meat - and I'm not talking the Alibaba kind.... !
From Craig's List New York
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Ohab zedek Frum guys
Reply to: pers-163701371@craigslist.org
Date: 2006-05-23, 12:30AM EDT
Looking for all the closeted gay orthodox`guys at OZ. We would like to all show up at Rabbi Schartz's office one day and let him know that there are more than just a few gay men in his synagogue!!!!
Its time that this little big secret comes out over there. You cant have 400 single men in their 20's, 30's and 40's and not have any gay guys. Lets start the process of coming out and being heard. There is strength in numbers!! Interested???
no -- it's NOT ok to contact this poster with services or other commercial interests
posted by JewYorkCity @ Wednesday, May 24, 2006
8 comments
8 Comments:
vfb... I prefer to get laid off of jdate.com... thank you very much! if you closely read the post you'd see that JYC regularly does searches on "Jew" in CL and posts from that very section. We do not discriminate on the yoeli seeking yoeli section of the site.
Your viewpoint of "find another denomination" seems to make so much sense, I wonder why no has every thought of that (that was being sarcastic). I hope when you have children who do something not-so-orthodox, you tell them to just "find another denomination".
--- if you closely read the post you'd see that JYC regularly does searches on "Jew" in CL and posts from that very section ---
I had read that, but had my doubts. The word “jew” does not appear anywhere in the Craig’s list posting. As such, it would not show up if you search by that word.
- sigh - VFB... you got me... ! perhaps it wasn't the word 'jew', yet the word 'frum'. but if you are so inclined to fool around... just ask me STRAIGHT out. I may just do you.
Oooh, things are getting sexy around here. Being that I know both of you, it is a tantalizing yet very frightening image? Where are you going to meet, hmmm? I suggest the women's section at OZ for that extra ironic flair.
As the original poster of the craigslist post, I can honestly say that I was definitely NOT trolling for partners ( I am happily coupled for 2 years). I was however attempting to get some attention about the fact that, although I dont expect orthodoxy to embrace me as a halachic model, I think its time for rabbis to stop ignoring the pain of their congregants. Rabbi Schwartz ignored a note written by me a few years back where the issue of suicide was mentioned at the time due to my desparation. A contact number was left to reach me. He never called or wrote a word. The feeling of abandonment and anger never left me. So ocassionally I post to see if there are others who might be suffering silently as I did. Its my way of saying "you are not alone" and we can strive for recognition if not acceptance. Even if it means that there is a concrete recognition that a significant number of the congregants will NEVER marry and that they are entitled to feel that they are fully members of the community. Til now we are made to feel we are on the road to nowhere... no marriage, no happiness, no public recognition of our worth. This has to end!!!! Of course I was not planning a real run on the Rabbi!!!! I was using it as a tool to get your attention. I regret that the net effect may have been to further alienate him from our community. For this I am sorry, and may actually step forward to discuss this with him myself sometime soon. I am sorry if I caused any angst or consternation.
Anonymous 4:14 AM:
I think it is really sad what you had to endure. It is terrible that the Orthodox community is so unsympathetic to the plight of gay Orthodox Jews.
With that said, unfortunately, it does not seem like it will change any time soon. Thus, I would hope that you consider finding an environment that will be more accepting, rather than stay in an environment which is not accepting and thus allow your bitterness and resentment to grow.
Have you ever gone to a conservative service? Even if you are not going to Congregation Beit Simchat Torah, a typical conservative congregation will be much more accepting of homosexuality. No one would care if you are out. I do not know if you were raised orthodox, (I suspect you were), but too many orthodox people think that there is no spirituality outside of orthodoxy, but that is not true. Is a part of your decision to stay orthodox for pragmatic reasons, such as that all you buddies go to OZ, you don’t want to disappoint your parents, etc. or is it made out of religious conviction?
Dear original poster,
I echo VFB! How sad what you had to endure. You are very strong and I am happy to hear that you are in a good relationship.
That said, I think it's a generalization that Orthodoxy is unsympathetic to your very real situation. More and more people are realizing that it is not a 'sin' so much as a real orientation that people are born with (something you can't change like your eye color). I think the community is grappling about what to do, since Orthodoxy says you can't change the wording of the Torah, but I bet that in the next 10 years you are going to see some real change. Since it makes no sense that good people have to feel alienated just because of one aspect of themselves. When Brokeback Mountain came out, I did a whole post on how upset I am about this very situation - and whimsically invited the Brokeback cowboys to join my shul (but I meant it). http://jewyorkcity.blogspot.com/2005/12/brokeback-cowboys-come-to-my-shul-ill.html
In the meantime, that is horrible that R. Schwartz ignored your urgent letter!!! And it's terrible that you have to use Craig's List as a forum to try to find support. I would be happy to be part of your support group, should you choose to confide in me. We can talk offline at jewyorkcity@gmail.com. And I know VFB and more people than you realize are sympathetic to you and can stand with you as a community.
You should never have to feel alone. We're all brothers and sisters...
I wouldn't say that I am looking for a support group anymore, though friends are always appreciated. I just was making the point that we are here and that there must be many many more who are silently suffering. To them I say "come out, come out, wherever you are"!!! (even if its just to yourself).
I would like to be in touch with any of you who would like to be. My email is gaydoc.alex@gmail.com
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